Why do we report to fish checkers?????

[jfisher]

Originally Posted by Jennie@ifish

This has been discussed so many times. This thread was alerted to be closed by a fellow member. It has so much activity, though, that I hesitate to do so.

Thing is, though, that if we all learned to use the search engine, we would be able to read those opinions. I'll try to merge this with the other threads where we have discussed (and discussed) this issue.

Should threads or posts be deleted just because someone does not like it?

Impossible to please everyone all of the time. I would agree his thread has been beaten to death. But so has the What Is The Best Plug Rod thread, and the Mono vs Braid thread, etc, etc, etc.

If threads and posts are consistent with AUP, shouldn't they be allowed even if someone does not like them? Any topic that has been beaten to death certainly does not hove to be looked at by an individual that does not like the topic.

[salmonbob]

Originally Posted by Anchor Management

What are you basing that on? Every fish checker I have seen is like a gillnetter, non-selective.

Have you ever seen a checker pass up a guide boat to check the ski boat tied up next to it. Fish checkers catch on quick,and figure out who is returning with fish and who is not. Last season i was fortunate enough to limit 5 rods a day before noon,when returning to the dock the checker would make eye contact with me every time. I would slowly motor to say the east dock and watch him walk to the end of the dock in anticipation of my arrival. To prove my theory i would make a sharp turn to the west dock and tie up . Every time he would immediately walk over to me on the other dock. FYI I never lie to the checkers in fact im enrolled in a program to record every fish caught/released in any boat i fish in.

[Dummie]

Too funny. If you are a liar, then lie. If not, then don't.

[ToneFish]

This thread makes me sad....somehow there is a belief that fishery management issues are just the result of government lying etc....

Seems to me that we all want strong fish populations, and if we disagree with something fishery managers are doing, we need to let them know and try to get things changed by 'working the system'.

scamming fish checkers??? government making up inflation rates??
what good can possibly come from these arguements???

[100% Siwash]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Liars suck.

All fisherman lie!

[Anchor Management]

Originally Posted by salmonbob

Have you ever seen a checker pass up a guide boat to check the ski boat tied up next to it. Fish checkers catch on quick,and figure out who is returning with fish and who is not. Last season i was fortunate enough to limit 5 rods a day before noon,when returning to the dock the checker would make eye contact with me every time. I would slowly motor to say the east dock and watch him walk to the end of the dock in anticipation of my arrival. To prove my theory i would make a sharp turn to the west dock and tie up . Every time he would immediately walk over to me on the other dock. FYI I never lie to the checkers in fact im enrolled in a program to record every fish caught/released in any boat i fish in.

In my experience, the fish checker is looking for the next person in line that appeared to be fishing. If they are checking on a guide boat when another boat shows up, they are not going to hop to it. But, I have never seen a fish checker watch a fisherman pull out without asking the basic q's, when they were not checking someone else.

[IDWITHELD]

Garbage in (false data) = Garbage out (Did not get the expected outcome , then complain about the way the fisheries managers are managing the resource).

Biederboat, you and I work in a much more scientific world and must analyze the inputs and validate the outputs. We share great respect and have a commitment to the "process" of gathering data. I guess for others it is just easier to lie and move on.

Originally Posted by biederboat

FYI, it's called "sampling"; meaning that they can project data based on the observations taken. What may appear to be haphazard is backed up by scientific methods based on probability (i.e. statistics). This applies to both catch and dam counts. Obviously not 100% accurate but beats doing nothing at all and leaving it to chance.

BB

[biederboat]

Originally Posted by IDWITHELD

Biederboat, you and I work in a much more scientific world and must analyze the inputs and validate the outputs. We share great respect and have a commitment to the "process" of gathering data. I guess for others it is just easier to lie and move on.

Hey, those engineering statistics courses finally paid off!
Incidentally, my son is now in the process of becoming a NOAA ground fisheries observer (hopefully that won't invite a firestorm of criticism but I'm braced for it). Anyway, he was telling me about how they are drilling into him that you have to be entirely random in your data collection process, i.e. you can't do things that might skew the data one way or another.

BB

[jfisher]

Originally Posted by ToneFish

This thread makes me sad....somehow there is a belief that fishery management issues are just the result of government lying etc....

Seems to me that we all want strong fish populations, and if we disagree with something fishery managers are doing, we need to let them know and try to get things changed by 'working the system'.

scamming fish checkers??? government making up inflation rates??
what good can possibly come from these arguements???

Yes it is sad!

We have sportsman, commercials, tribes and ODFW officials with the best intentions for saving fish. We also have people in all those groups that are motivated purely by greed and there own agendas.

I have heard it said on ifish "that there are no bad guys here, just a bunch of people looking out for the welfare of the fish." Believing in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are wonderful. But believing that all of us are just as nice as Santa is just naive.

As for scamming fish checkers and government making up inflation rates.

The point was they do not make up inflation rates, they simply make formulas for inflation to make them what they want to be, just as they can do with numbers collected at the boat ramp.

What good can come of these arguments? The sooner people realize that in real life everyone is not Santa, the sooner real change can take place.

[Captain 40]

Don't bring Santa into this, he has nothing to do with it!

[MsOutdrs]

Originally Posted by 100% Siwash

All fisherman lie!

Well, that's probably true...but to each other!!! lol

[AlumaFisher]

.....hhhhhhhhh....... I've never been checked but if I do I would gladly tell them. I see it the same way as my tag (because its the law to report on the tag just as a verbal data poll).

[bentlever]

Ifish makes me laugh. All i wanted to know was if it a law to report to a fish checker and it turns into school kids fighting over themselves. Kill you computer and go fishing it will make you happy. By the way moderator can kill this thread since the question has been answered. Kind of!

[sidedrifter1]

Originally Posted by jfisher

Once again truth or lie is irrelevant. Do you really think your opinion or truth is going to matter to government officials and agencies? Do they have a track record of making sense, and doing the right thing or pure loonacy?

Cooking the books, and using formulas that further political agendas false image are the way of life in government.

Do you really believe the inflation numbers are 2 percent every year?

Do you really believe that the governmental formula for inflation should NOT include energy and food costs, the 2 most consumed items?

Obviously I missed the boat in life, I should have been a swamp land salesmen for the government, since everyone has such faith in what they sell I could have made a killing in commissions.

I see Ritalin in your future

[Bassjacker]

The reason I report when asked by a fish checker is my integrity - it's that simple.

I would never place myself in a position that would jeopardize my word, that policy has caused me serious dis-comfort over the years - however, it's worth it to remain above reproach.

Feeling like you "Got Over", "Pulled one off", "did a fast one" or "snowed" someone doesn't help you or them. If you don't like answering to the fish checker - reach down, grab a pair of deez - and tell them "I am not going to answer you, because I don't believe in your cause" Then wait for the OSP to give you a ticket - because you would be a better person than a liar.

[jlg]

It strikes me that the AUP says you can't encourage illegal behavior. Not telling the truth to the fish checker is illegal. Why is this thread still here?

[ChezJfrey]

Originally Posted by jlg

It strikes me that the AUP says you can't encourage illegal behavior. Not telling the truth to the fish checker is illegal. Why is this thread still here?

I believe there is a difference between justification and outright encouragement. While I have noticed some people justifying questionable and perhaps illegal lying to checkers, I don't think I've noticed that anyone has actually encouraged others to do the same.

[biederboat]

Originally Posted by bentlever

Ifish makes me laugh. All i wanted to know was if it a law to report to a fish checker and it turns into school kids fighting over themselves. Kill you computer and go fishing it will make you happy. By the way moderator can kill this thread since the question has been answered. Kind of!

Yeah, kind of like asking a question about sharpened hooks...

BB

[Dummie]

Originally Posted by jlg

It strikes me that the AUP says you can't encourage illegal behavior. Not telling the truth to the fish checker is illegal. Why is this thread still here?

Its rich entertainment value.

[RiverJohn]

For fishery science knowledge.

(Not that it is perfect)

[wayout]

Twenty more posts and ODFW and WDFW will have enough data to develop a totally valid "fudge factor" that can be applied to all fishers interviewed. So when you report 1 fish caught they can record 1 + the fudge factor, say 1.25 to account for the amount of admitted under-reporting and fish checker avoidance. Makes sense to me

[rojoband]

Originally Posted by wayout

Twenty more posts and ODFW and WDFW will have enough data to develop a totally valid "fudge factor" that can be applied to all fishers interviewed. So when you report 1 fish caught they can record 1 + the fudge factor, say 1.25 to account for the amount of admitted under-reporting and fish checker avoidance. Makes sense to me

They already do this. Have been for some time. As Jennie has mentioned this has been discussed numerous times, but its good for newer folks to revisit.

It is a catch 22 by not reporting or reporting bad numbers. Like folks have pointed out, it actually reduces the in-season run size, and the managers see all this effort for very little fish and figure 'hey we better shut the fishery down'. A lot of folks think it's the other way around. A lot of folks used to argue about not recording fish on their catch card....until they realized that ended up making it look like certain hatchery programs were performing poorly and the states started to say they were going to reduce production here or there and people were like "***!!"

Bottom line....it costs money (taxpayer money, mind you, and most of it not license dollars) to grow fish and monitor fisheries. If you don't give the managers good information to make decisions then they are going to limit us, not just because of ESA limitations or concerns....because bottom line is that they are strapped for cash, and are needing to weigh cost-benefits of every penny they have to spend. Can't tell folks what to do but it definitely makes us look bad seeing threads like this. Makes me wonder how we can ever ask commercials/tribes to listen to us when I still see attitudes that think its in their best interest to do this.

[jfisher]

Originally Posted by jlg

It strikes me that the AUP says you can't encourage illegal behavior. Not telling the truth to the fish checker is illegal. Why is this thread still here?

I went back and skimmed through all of the posts and could see no example of anyone ENCOURAGING illegal behavior. I saw no example of encouraging of or admission of illegal behavior. Maybe I missed one??

So, if this topic bothers you, maybe a better question would be why are you still here?

[alanmikkelsen]

I report for two reasons: First, I'm not going to lie. Second, whether or not you agree, managers need information. If they're not getting accurate information, the only people being hurt are fishermen. Somebody said it above, garbage in, garbage out. Fishermen have a moral, ethical and legal obligation to report.

[Twysted]

Originally Posted by DogZilla15

...It sometimes irks me to think all these people are on the payroll as they get accurate fish counts when we turn in our tags anyhow...

I'm not sure how accurate the counts would be if all they relied on was returned tags. I don't think Washington even collects them at the license dealers anymore, you have to mail them in. Heck, even when I could drop them off at the counter there were years they never got turned in at all. At least if I ran into a checker they knew about a couple/few of the fish I caught those years.

[Salmon Mike]

Originally Posted by 100% Siwash

All fisherman lie!

Thats a lie!!!

[roosevelt]

Originally Posted by Captain 40

Don't bring Santa into this, he has nothing to do with it!

thanks captain, i thought i was gonna have to say something

[jfisher]

Originally Posted by roosevelt

thanks captain, i thought i was gonna have to say something

My most sincere apologies to roosevelt and captain 40 for bringing Santa into this nasty discussion.

I am very bad sometimes.

[USCGBoating]

I hunt them down to report my catch or... even if I didnt catch anything. Best source of "fish intel" in the harbor. Where they were caught at, what they were catching them on, how deep, who had limits and who got skunked! Everyone who talks to a fish checker spills thier guts and if you talk nice to the fish checker they will spill theirs. That's what they are really there for!!!

Dan

[Stacie L. Kelsey]

Thought I would throw my two cents in. I work for WDFW in the Inland Fish Program. Part of my job is checking lakes. I oversee warmwater fish and trout.

Interviewing anglers gives me an idea of effort and harvest on the lake. That is important. And just as important I get face time with the people who pay my salary. It gives me the opportunity to talk to them about the fishery. What trends are they seeing? Smaller fish? No fish?

The numbers are certainly important but the opportunity to speak with angłers is too.

So the next time a fish checker approaches you, keep in mind that they are doing important work that is meant to not only benefit the resource but also the fishermen.

[B Run Banker]

looks like it is unlawful not to spill the beans to a checker....if they really wanted to push the issue..as for steelhead salmon, im not sure their way of keeping track of the harvest is correct but if they posted counters at all sites 24 7 i bet the quotas would be met a lot sooner in some places,, so i guess their way is not so bad,

[MsOutdrs]

I enjoy chatting with the checkers...okay, I enjoy chatting with anyone...BUT,...when we go in skunked, it always makes me feel better when I hear that the majority that day were skunked and I get that from the checker. Never met a nasty checker but have seen them treated with somewhat a lack of respect. Ya know, I'm starting to become somewhat racially biased...against my own race!!!!

[E-Fishin-C]

Originally Posted by USCGBoating

I hunt them down to report my catch or... even if I didnt catch anything. Best source of "fish intel" in the harbor. Where they were caught at, what they were catching them on, how deep, who had limits and who got skunked! Everyone who talks to a fish checker spills thier guts and if you talk nice to the fish checker they will spill theirs. That's what they are really there for!!!

Dan

+1

[tysonparlor10]

Wow guys, really? Just my but i think people should do everything in their power to protect something they love. Why would you deceive someone checking angler effort to catch ratio in a fishery you care about? It's so easy to report your catch too, even if everyone on the boat has caught their limit

[iLeon]

I fish therefore I never lie

[tsorrels]

The gal fishchecker in Florence needs to be a little more polite and nice

[Moose-head]

Originally Posted by USCGBoating

Best source of "fish intel" in the harbor. Where they were caught at, what they were catching them on, how deep, who had limits and who got skunked!

The thought of lying to them has never even crossed my mind. I have found that they can be quite helpful in pointing me in the right direction for trying to catch a fish.